La nouvelle ligue.

Maintenant, chacune des organisations possède son inventaire de joueurs. Jusqu’à aujourd’hui, ces équipes n’existaient pas vraiment, des coquilles vides. Là, le jaune et le blanc sont en place, du moins les Nordiks ont misé sur soixante joueurs, dont une couvée de Québécois.
Monsieur Madden peut, d’ores et déjà, tenter les sélectionnés et offrir des millions à deux ou trois joueurs. MM devra rapidement conclure des ententes avec cette catégorie d’athlète, sinon les omelettes goûteront la coquille. Un élément cependant qui pourrait venir en aide à ce bâtisseur, les signatures de repêchés, par Toronto ou Hamilton, entre autre. Imaginons un Joe Thorton, sans contrat avec les Bruins, s'entendre avec Toronto. Au surplus, un atout majeur favorise les assises de cette ligue, les négos de la LNH avec l’Association des joueurs.

Je me souviens en 72, Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull et JC Tremblay avaient joint dès le début avec Hartford, Winnipeg et Québec de la WHL. Une autre équipe, celle de Birmingham, avait signé sept ou huit joueurs d'impact de la LHJMQ. Si mes souvenirs sont exacts, Michel Goulet s'allignait avec cette formation.

Good post, sagueblue.

Right now the WHA is fantasy. Sure, they have done their draft and now each club has 60 players.

The trick here will be trying to sign enough of them to put a team on the ice.

A league with few teams and even fewer arena agreements leaves many questions. Unless arena deals are made, it will be tough signing these players unless they know for sure that there will be a place to play.

Some high profile free agents would have to leave the NHL and actually sign with the WHA to give anyone any idea that the new league will have any credibility.

I expect little, if any impact on the Q here at the start, unless Crosby suprises everyone and signs with Toronto, and most of us know that is highly unlikely.

Salut Polands!

If u want to start a team, can u imagine, if u have in u,re garden, Joe and Syd.

This skeleton key will open any door or any building in the metrop.

I'm sure, if Joe join, the Crosby show is on the ice. IF...

As far as Thornton's case goes, he just filed for arbitration for $5.5 million. $5 million will be ALL he would get if he signed with the WHA.

That said, if Crosby would happen to sign with Toronto, that would eliminate Thornton from the picture or vice-versa. From what I understand, each WHA club will be allowed a franchise player exemption of up to $5 million, after that, I think the players will sign from anywhere between $500,000 to $1 million, with an ultimate cap around $20 million.

Thorton have signed a Contract in Europe ...

J'ai regardé sur le net et aucune indication n'est retransmise tant qu'à une signature de contrat via l'Euro.
En même temps, les circonstances actuelles rendent possible tous les scénarios et de voir à la fois Joe and Syd, ds le même chandail, demeurent probable.

It is interesting, saguebleu.

The idea of Joe and Sid on the same team is intriguing for sure.

Since the Bruins haven't signed anybody, they may just win the lottery if the NHL plays, because all of the free agents they would have signed either went to Europe and the WHA ;-)

poland...., un joueur qui signera avec l'une ou l'autre des ligues, durant le lock-out, sera perçu comment par ces collègues, un traître ou a treachurous.

pk un traitre ? si les joueurs veulent continuer a etre en forme et jouer parce quil aime le hockey .. ok ya le facteur cash aussi .. mais je crois pas que les joueurs vont etre traiter de traitre ... pas tlm qui est daccord avec le lock out a ce que je sache ...

quote:

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Message original de / Originally posted by saguebleu:
poland...., un joueur qui signera avec l'une ou l'autre des ligues, durant le lock-out, sera perçu comment par ces collègues, un traître ou a treachurous.

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Je sais pas... en 72 peut-être mais en 2004 dans un monde où "money rule the world" et où chaque joueur est rendu une PME, je suis pas sur qu'un joueur sera perçu comme un traite.

Salut sol....

Si je coupe 600 emplois demain matin, il risque d'y avoir affluence à certains endroits, du moins au bureau des agents. Il est vrai que l'association est riche.
Caro, la majorité des joueurs sont pour la position de Goodenow ou good enough, peu importe
le plafond n'est pas souhaité par les chômeurs et la masse niet, nada, no, non, nietche.....

saguebleu...

How can a player be a traitor if there is no league to play in?

The players faith in Bob Goodenow will last until clubs start to fold as a result of no incoming revenue to pay for hockey operations, front office people and the salaries of those prospects playing in the AHL.

Gretzky got drafted by Edmonton in the old WHA and played for them. He is certainly not regarded as a traitor. The NHLPA can't come down on players hard if they choose to go some place else to get a paycheck.

You have to figure that this CBA and this contract affects really the top 10% that make $5 million a year or more. Roughly 50% of the players make a $1 million or less a season, and those will be the types that will go somewhere for a paycheck, as they can't afford to not have a paycheck.

good day poland.....

Un joueur qui signe avec les Nordiks pour un montant moindre que ce qu'il gagnerait ds la NHL sera perçu comme un lâcheur, un traître mou à la cause. Un joueur qui accepte ce principe est perçu comme un adepte, un disciple à la cause des propriétaires. Les Bruins est certes le club qui démontre aux autres de quel bois se chauffe les propriétaires. Un joueur comme Ribeiro a dit: "personne ne vaut dix millions par année." Même s'il a raison, les amis de Mike doivent se faire timide et rare. Je ne crois pas qu'un gars comme Brodeur soit si apprécier que cela par l'association. Il négocie lui-même ses ententes, les agents voient cela comme un cheveu ds leur soupe. Les agents écrivent les contrats selon des comparatifs, et la démesure flatte l'égo des proprios. La majorité des gars qui patinent, 80% environs, sont soucieux de leur jeu et laissent à leur agent l'organisation contractuelle. Je ne dis pas que l'argent ne les intéressent pas, je dis seulement que ce n'est pas leur boulot. Les conseillers des joueurs savent les lois de l'offre et s'entendent sur le citron à presser. Goodenow repoussent tout ce qu'il y a à l'encontre de ses principes, même les supers joueurs. Le libre-marché bordellique risque de perdurer si l'on se fie aux négos historiques.
Si le lock out perdure, les autres ligues aiguiseront leurs crayons, et plus vite que nous le pensons.

saguebleu...

Free agents are just that... FREE agents. They can sign wherever and for what. League loyalty means nothing, if it gets to the point where that becomes an issue.

The Statsny's played for the Nordiques when they very well could have played in the NHL.

Bobby Hull went to the WHA and others followed. They were not patronized by their decisions. In fact, the NHLPA welcomed back each and every one when the WHA dissolved and became apart of the NHL.

I don't think that if players go to a different league they will be viewed as traitors when it comes to money. If a career AHL / bubble NHL player can make $500,000 in the WHA if offered is foolish not to take it.

U said a good argument, poland.....s, but for all of players, the free agents represent a lot of money. If the free sign for less, because he is afraid to jump a year (money), a lot of players don,t like this signing.
Le salaire moyen ds la LNH est élevé parce que le petit salarié sans exiger, reçoit beaucoup.

Don't want to argue with you saguebleu...discuss, yes ;-)

As far as what you are saying about lower level players driving up the league salary average, I disagree. $5 million or more goes a long way to driving up the league average salary than many at $250,000.

I think we agree with each other on this to a certain extent, despite the language barrier.

My point is if a career player in the NHL has been making less than $500,000 per season, that player is foolish if he doesn't take a contract for that amount if he is offered it.

Players have no loyalty to teams, as many move around... chasing money. If players have no loyalty to teams, why should they have allegiance to a league?

Great discussion, I do appreciate your point of view.

polan.......s, in french argument is not a negative term, it,s + for to have a great idea, a proposal indisputable.
For the players, if the paycheck is higher, the pie of raspberrys is more bigger.
En mathématique, la loi de la moyenne existe pour les gens moyens, d'ailleurs, les lois de la taxe et des impôts sont diversifiés grâce à la classe moyenne. Ce sont eux qui paient la majorité des points d'impôts. Le salaire moyen est beaucoup plus intéressant que le salaire minimum. Plus le salaire minimum subit des pressions vers le haut plus le revenu moyen sera élevé.
En passant, les zéros banalise tout, nous parlons de 100 milles comme s'il s'agissait de 1000$, de dollars canadiens comme si c'était des $ US. Un joueur qui signe pour 450 milles au lieu de 400 milles vient de hausser la moyenne. Si la moyenne est de 1 million, cela ne représente que 5% à la moyenne.

Saguebleu...

Sure the average salary will go up when you have a few players make a large quantity of money versus many who mak little. If you have one player making $10 and three making $2, the average salary of the four is $4. So it does impact what the average salary is.

That is where the problem is. The top 10% in the league is what drives the league average salary up, but that does not represent the lower class effectively, as a result, the average does not represent a majority.

If I am a player in the NHL who makes $250 and the WHA comes to me and offers me $500... I take the $500... regardless if I have been in the league 15 years or just starting out.

Under the present rookie cap, Syd will sign for roughly $1.5 and with incentives bring that number to $3 to $3.5.

What I question is if the WHA comes and offers $5 - at age 17 - and that contract is somehow made guaranteed, regardless if the league achieves or fails, it is almost crazy for him not to take it. Why risk injury in the Q for nothing when money can be made in the WHA. Why not sign for one year and see what happens?

The probability of that happening is between slim and none, but the thought of it is interesting to consider, which once his agent gets an offer, he'll have to consider it.

Toronto now has to secure a place to play before they open up the wallet. Time will only tell.

pol......s, Toronto at 15 millions are to low, if they sign Thorn at 4 or 5, they cannot respect the top.

Remember saguebleu...

the league has an exemption for a "franchise player", which is $5 million per year. That does not factor in to the $20 million the teams will use to sign up the rest of the roster.

Toronto can't give to Thornton what money he could make in the NHL. That is why he won't go.

Crosby could make more money going WHA at first rather than waiting to go into the NHL as a rookie under the present CBA. But Crosby, if he did sign, it would be short term at best.

polandspringMAINEiac

They draft him, all the team in WHA want him, and all the team subsidy Toronto for that.
The question is, the fact is:

LOCK OUT!

saguebleu...

I understand.

Thornton signed a deal with Davos that he can walk away from once the CBA issue has been resolved.

Most other European leagues won't allow players to do that, as they want a commitment from the players to stay for the whole season, regardless of the NHL's status.

I am not certain what type of deals the WHA will offer in regards to NHL players. I would imagine unrestricted free agents who sign will have to play out thier contracts. Restricted free agents in the NHL have to be careful what deals they get into, regardless if it is the WHA or any other league.

If the WHA is smart, they will require players to either play with them or the NHL and not allow any escape clauses which would allow them to go back once the NHL commences.

The WHA has to build a fan base, and they won't get one unless star players agree to play, and agree to play long term in those markets.

Ultimate priority for WHA is "today".

Priority list:

1. Get an arena (most of these clubs don't even have an arena to play in.)

2. Sign players (can't sign anyone unless there is a place to play)

3. Sell the public that the league is better than the AHL, yet not with the NHL ticket price.

Gold skates, anyone? ;-)

Not today, NOW...


polandspringMAINEiac

I want to need an opinion, ure. Can-u see my report on LHJMQ site about Bulletin 2003-04?

I see it, what do you want to know?